so traveling hey baby seated uh good morning everyone we’ll proceed with our next witness good morning your honor thank you before i call the state’s next witness i’d like to offer two exhibits into the record that were published yesterday exhibits 75 and 267. those are received thank you your honor the state calls john edwards raise your right hand you swear or firm under penalty of perjury but the testimony about today will be the truth and nothing but the truth yes sir have a seat and if you wouldn’t mind we have been having witnesses remove their masks if you’re comfortable with that we prefer that so we can hear you a little better absolutely and if you could pull up a little bit to the microphone right and start by stating your full name spelling each of your names my name is john curtis edwards uh j-o-n-c-u-r-t-i-s-e-d-w-a-r-d-s mr speaker good morning good morning would you please uh tell the jury your occupation minneapolis police sergeant how long have you held that position 2007 so approximately 14 years not as a sergeant but as a police officer for 14 years yes sir all right so you started as a police officer in 2007 did you start with the minneapolis police department i started as a cadet in the cadet program all right but that was your first job in law enforcement yes right okay you started as a cadet um describe that experience uh if you would uh the cadet program is a curriculum designed for those who have graduated college from accredited college to undergo more criminal justice and law classes as well as partaken skills as well as various scenario-based simulations pertaining to law enforcement it’s a curriculum designed with the end goal of becoming post certified by the post board in the post is the police officer standards and training board is that right correct okay and that’s how you get your license to be a police officer in the state of minnesota correct correct after obtaining that you can be a officer a licensed peace officer in the state of minnesota and you occasionally take you oh yes all right do you occasionally take continuing education credits to uh keep your license current correct do you do that as part of in-service training is that correct okay so after you graduated from the academy and became post-certified what was your job duties um after upon graduating the academy you are a new uh officer on fto what do you mean by fto um every new officer is assigned to fto which is a field training officer and that is usually a veteran officer who you for about four to five months you’re on rotation with the new uh or with the veteran officer as you’ve learned the ropes after you completed your field training then did you become a patrol officer yes so can you please share with the jury the different places uh within minneapolis that you were assigned as a patrol officer so i finished my fto uh rotation in the third precinct south minneapolis uh from there i went and was assigned to the fifth precinct and that is also south minneapolis located off of 31st nicklett where i was a patrol 911 responder um and i primarily worked the night shifts um i worked metal watch shift in our dog watch shift our dog watch shift just pretty much means overnight um we started at the night time and the shift ends when the sun comes up um so my my journey started on on the night shifts in the fifth precinct now through the course of your mpd career you’ve been assigned to different units or teams is that right yes sir one of those was a community response team is that right yes um i did approximately maybe a year and a half in our certain team community response team that is a unit that’s uh not bound by 911 patrol that is a unit that’s primarily focused on uh crime patterns that are happening within that precinct so we did a lot of uh burglary suppression robbery suppression prostitution uh things of that nature that were highly focused on specific crimes in that precinct you’ve also been assigned to the community engagement unit is that right yes sir and could you describe what that unit is let me take some water for this so i was uh in the community engagement unit for approximately two years now that unit was a unit that uh derived from former president obama’s 21st century policing initiative which pretty much means more community-oriented policing and that unit that i was a part of was primarily focused on the specific needs of the community so i worked directly with members of the community things of like neighborhood watch organizations a lot of meetings but it was specific to uh specific needs of the community and we weren’t uh we weren’t 911 patrol okay and after you finished that assignment you well you mentioned that your current rank is out of sergeant is that right yes sir okay um on leave right now and you uh you had to take a test to be a sergeant and then get selected chris yes and so now you’re a patrol sergeant um where are you currently assigned i’m on leave right now prior to that immediately prior to starting your leave i was assigned to the third precinct dog watch shift the overnight shift now when you’re working as a shift sergeant you typically wear a uniform yes sir outfitted with a body worn camera yes sir do you have a partner no i’m one of three sergeants that are on that shift though but no partner are you assigned a car yes sir when you ride then you ride solo yes sir now uh you’ve uh as a minneapolis police officer you’ve signed a certification that you’re familiar with very various uh minneapolis police department policies is that right yes sir and as part of that in addition to all of the policies that have been introduced we’re just going to focus on that of a critical incident response all right now when we looking back to may 2020 you were supervising the dog watch if were you working on may 25 2020 yes sir i was okay and when do you recall beginning your shift like i said on the dog watch shift our shift started at 20 30 hours which is 8 30 p.m what’s the first thing you do when you start the shift first thing i do is conduct roll call with my officers describe what the roll call involves roll call is uh basically attendance making sure all the other everybody’s there accounted for they’re ready to work it’s a it’s a time where we pass along pertinent information um about what has gone on during the day or maybe uh what crime patterns and things to be aware of and if the officers have anything that you know needs to be brought to the table they can as well um roll call concludes with me giving the officers their squad assignments and then sending them on their way so that they can start answering 911 calls and do you typically receive information from the previous shifts that you can pass it along to the officers you’re sending out in your shift sometimes sometimes yeah you’re generally familiar with the officers you personally supervise yes and other officers within the third precinct are you familiar with other officers in the third precinct who not are not necessarily on your specific shift oh yes yes uh are you familiar with an individual named Derek Chauvin not personally but i do know who he is um do you believe you’d recognize him if you saw him absolutely do you see him in a courtroom today yes would you please point to him and thank you your honor may the record reflect that the witnesses identified the defendant do you know him like i said i don’t know him personally we worked out of the same building um but we worked on different shifts i wasn’t his direct supervisor sort of a name and face recognition absolutely never socialized outside of work are you familiar with an officer named tu tau yes i know who he is is it the same you know basically the same type of relationship as uh the defendant yes we worked out of the same building but we were on different shifts and uh thomas lane yes how would you describe your relationship with thomas lane um he was also on the midwatch shift but thomas lane did do a rotation when they were new um on my shift and i believe he was on my shift for about a month when he was i think it was probably his second month on the job have you ever interacted with him outside of a work setting also and uh alexander king him as well same relation he and uh officer lane were both on my shift for approximately a month and i believe that was his also his second month of of uh being on the job so as while they’re on their fto rotation they rotate between different shifts thank you yeah i’d like to then bring you back to that roll call on the date and question did you receive a telephone call around roll call time i believe the phone call was shortly just as roll call concluded yes and who is that phone call from i received a phone call from sergeant kluger who was the midwatch sergeant do you recall what sergeant plugger uh let me back up did sergeant krueger give you information that you relied upon to take further steps in your duties that night yes okay what did sergeant peter tell you sergeant klueger informed me that he was at the hospital at that time and he was with a male that he described may or may not live later on in the night i found out that that male was mr floyd he said he was down there at the hospital he asked me if i would be willing to respond to the incident location of 38th in chicago because he was tied up at the hospital at the time he asked me if i would respond down there just to make sure just in case we had to secure that area and uh make contact with any of his officers that were were there on scene still because this was a had the potential to be a possible critical incident can you describe them what you mean by a critical incident uh usually an incident an officer-involved incident where uh either officer or somebody else has uh died or officer or somebody else has suffered great bodily harm that later led to death and based on your knowledge of minneapolis police department policy what is supposed to happen if there is a critical incident with the crime scene and with the participants the crime scene is uh supposed to be secured which means lockdown and that is for the purpose to preserve any evidence that is there um the involved parties or the involved officers usually uh are chilling in a waiting uh escort sergeant so that they can be escorted to an interview room downtown appropriate notifications are made ia homicide if you will um yeah upper administration the area is uh canvassed which just means there’s a designated amount of officers that are searching the area looking for any witnesses that can give a synopsis of what they saw um and then uh we wait for the investigators to get there car 21 and pretty much wait for further uh information from some of the superiors do you take any steps with respect to body worn cameras and ensuring that those are activated absolutely what do you do to make sure that it ensure that everybody’s body-worn cameras are active and running at all times and in this specific case did you uh take steps consistent with the procedures you just outlined yes when i arrived on scene yes at this time i’d like to publish exhibit one after you got off the phone with sergeant kluger did you go directly to 38th in chicago i told sergeant plugger that i didn’t mind going down there i just had to gather some of my things and then i’d head down there so i believe i got down there um 238th in chicago at about 9 35 p.m when i arrived there were you wearing your body worn camera yes and it was activated yes you please describe the scene as you recall it when you arrived um it’s 38th in chicago so it’s kind of a high profile area 38th street and chicago avenue are both major thoroughfares in south minneapolis when i arrived the only people that were there were officers king and lane it seemed there wasn’t very many other people around when i arrived there now you indicated that your body worn camera was activated and prior to testifying today you’ve had an opportunity to review various still photographs taken from the footage of your body-worn camera is that right yes and at this time your honor i’m going to offer exhibits 81-95 are images taken from sergeant edward’s body worn camera any objection 81 through 95 inclusive are received you indicated that officers king and lane were at the scene when you arrived i did publish exhibit 81 do you recognize the individuals in this photograph exhibit 81 i do and who is this individual it’s officer lane and this is officer king and you tell the jury what any interaction you had with officers lane and king when you arrived when i arrived there i was met by officer king first first thing i did was i told him hey if your body worn camera is not on turn it on now he did officer lane came out of the car several seconds afterwards told the same thing to him and he activated his bodyborne camera right so uh lane was initially sitting in the car yes sir do you know what car his squad car the one that’s pictured right there is that 320.
Is that a squad car assigned to that sector within the third precinct yeah that’s a middle watch squad after you instructed both officers to activate or make sure their body-worn camera was activated did you tell them anything else they needed to do um yes i uh asked them where they had interaction with uh mr floyd they told me that they interacted with him uh on the sidewalk there by their squad car they also told me they interacted with him on chicago avenue right in front of the cub foods store and based on those statements then did you direct them to place crime scene tape around the area to preserve the scene yes so with that information i was able to gather where the incident occurred and then i instructed them to place crime scene tape around the area so that we could preserve any potential evidence that was there first i’m going to ask that publish exhibit 82 all right what do you see in this photograph it appears to be officer king putting up crime scene tape and publish exhibit one do you have one of these up there a little stylus if you could use that to just roughly outline the area that will show where the crime scene tape was put up generally okay so generally their squad was right here at the time this is different their squad was here mr floyd’s vehicle was was right here um i had them encompass this whole area so crime scene tape was around that whole intersection and encompassed the entire intersection at the time they were having them do this were there any other officers in the area at the time it was just king and lane at that time i believe is myself king and lane but i had other officers from my shift responding to the area because i knew we were going to probably have to lock down that area so you asked the other officers yes that wasn’t something that was arranged before no and the purpose i asked for additional officers oh i’m sorry all right uh and and that was for the specific purpose of keeping the area secure yes sir if you would clear that your own at some point did you learn that this in fact was a critical incident uh later on in the night yes but you were taking steps to secure the scene as if it were going to be a critical incident before that yes sir so at this point did you really know anything about what had happened that caused you to be called out there specifically no i didn’t i didn’t know specifics um no at that point i had very little specifics first i was waiting for more phone calls from uh sergeant cougar for more direction of what was going on for example you didn’t know the defendant was involved at that point is that right correct um you had a brief interaction and conversation with king and lane is that right yes that based then on what they told you you took some additional steps were you able to then communicate with the other officers that you directed to come to the scene to provide them direction yes what did you ask the other officers to do a number of the officers i asked to canvas the area as i explained before that just means um pretty much go door to door see if there’s any potential witnesses that may have been there when the incident occurred and uh obtain a synopsis of what they saw and to get their name and information it’s just searching for any potential witnesses and getting their story if we could publish exhibit 83 another image from your body-worn camera you see some of the other officers from your shift who you called to help you with the scene yes sir i’m going to ask you to identify some of the folks in the picture we’ll start of course here who’s that it’s officer lane right and this individual officer nerling okay and this person it’s officer kate this person officer oaks and this person officer areola and officer areola was a fairly new officer at the time yes sir now would you please tell the jury just sort of the scope of the security you provided to this scene at that time during these early it was the early morning hours now of may 26th is that right yes sir what did you do um i shortly thereafter here i received a call from fluger telling me that escort officers or escort sergeants would be coming down and that um he was still downtown or at the hospital i had been notified and uh appropriate people administration had been notified and um he just requested that the scene just remained secure so in answer to your question we uh uh my guys and i just remained there for scene security to uh ensure that no vehicle or pedestrian traffic entered the crime scene and contaminated our our scene we made sure no one came in to that roped off area yes did you take any steps with respect to the business cup foods yes what did you do uh sergeant fluger asked me if i was able to make contact with the manager and if so speak with him which i did how many officers at any given time were used to secure the scene um i believe that night i only had about maybe eight to ten officers on um and i didn’t have every single one of my officers on this scene because there were still a lot of 911 calls that needed to be attended to in addition to securing the perimeter of the scene did you secure any vehicles within the scene yes sir and what vehicles did you secure uh officers king and lane squad as well as mr floyd’s vehicle that was parked ahead of theirs and could you describe that vehicle please i honestly don’t remember what kind of vehicle mr floyd was driving okay it was a dark colored vehicle though if i remember correctly did you keep officers king and lane out of the squad 320 yes i did and i told them to leave their belongings inside the squad car at this time i’d like to publish exhibit 84.
So exhibit 84 then for the record is a photo from your body worn camera taken at uh 2150 and 17 seconds is that right yes and we see uh both king and lane in the photo correct yes all right and is this where you had the initial interaction with them where you asked them to get out of the vehicle so you could secure it that is and they complied with it they did did you see anyone uh including them take anything out of the vehicle no uh was the vehicle running or had it been stopped it was running what did you do since it was running i told them to get out of the car they got out of the car yeah did you uh at any point uh stop the vehicle from running that wasn’t until um the bca showed up and uh i believe it was special agent uh mike phil uh told me that they were gonna take custody of the squad and mr floyd’s vehicle we noticed the vehicle or we noticed the squad car i’m sorry it was still running so he instructed me to power it down you’d also mention something about a canvas did you at some point instruct officers to do a canvas of the area for possible witnesses yes as i explained that yes and what you know since you didn’t know much about what had happened what were you what were you asking the officers to to look for you know anybody that may have been in the area at the time that the incident occurred you know we knew that the incident occurred before we got to work so um you know i guess we were just trying to get lucky maybe there was somebody still there um that was willing to talk to us or or um yeah who did you send out to do the canvas was it several officers did that include areola and knurling yes it did they locate any witnesses who are willing to speak with you what was that did they locate any witnesses who are willing to speak with you who are willing to speak with me yes no did you at any point interact with an elderly or an older gentleman won’t say elderly older gentleman at the scene yes did he identify himself to you first or last name he identified himself to me as as charles he refused to give me his name his full name now publish exhibit 87 this is another body worn camera image not from your body worn camera but it shows uh who is this that’s me okay and is this uh charles yes sir and this point captures the conversation that you had with him at 2205 and about 43 seconds is that right yes sir um he did not provide any information to you no he did not i explained to him that he’d be very valuable to us if he had something to say or if he saw something but he uh he told me he refused to say anything and wondered if he was under arrest and i told him no he told me he wanted to leave and and of course you didn’t know whether or not he had spoken with anybody already about this incident correct that was the first time i’ve seen did you ask king and lane to participate in the canvas no i don’t believe i did what did you ask them to do i asked them to chill out because later on i knew from sergeant plueger that he had a couple of escort sergeants coming down to transport them to interview room 100 publish exhibit 85 all right looking at exhibit 85 from your body worn camera at 21 51 25 you see officers lane and king were they standing where you told them to stand waiting where you told them to wait correct and at this time you instructed them to keep their body worn cameras activated is that right correct do you recall speaking with any other potential witnesses uh while you were at the scene no i don’t do you recall entering cup foods yes yes speak with anybody at cup foods yes um like i said before uh sergeant plugger asked me to see if i can make contact with the manager there at cub foods and i did and i spoke with him publish exhibit 86 all right this is an image from your blackboard camera at 21 54 in 32 seconds uh who is that individual i do not remember his name but he is the manager there at cub foods and did you learn whether or not he was a witness to the interaction between the police and George floyd he said he didn’t witness anything i had a brief conversation with him now when you arrived you testified you had taken control of the scene right as the sergeant you were the ranking officer there yes sir at some point uh did another ranking officer arrive at the scene yes um lieutenant zimmerman from homicide arrived at the scene shortly after as well as a sergeant dale published exhibit 88 all right i know that that’s a little hard to see but can you identify the people in this photo that’s myself and that’s lieutenant zimmerman when did he arrive approximately when did he arrive approximately yes i couldn’t tell you the time you arrived i can tell you the time stamp that i’m seeing right there 2206 all right so that would be 1006 p.m so even if not exact arrival time this is pretty close in time to lieutenant zimmerman’s first arrival yes all right when lieutenant zimmerman arrived what happened with the scene uh he came and just ensured that we had the scene um secure we came and ensured that uh we had officers that were canvassing the area for any potential witnesses that were still there um and uh yeah did you see lieutenant zimmerman interact with either the involved officers lane or king um i don’t recall seeing him interact with leonard king did you imagine to lieutenant zimmerman any information that you had uh you know gathered about the scene or potential witnesses to that point can you ask that question again sure did you tell lieutenant zimmerman what you did it’s up to that point to get them kind of caught up on the scene and the witnesses and what steps have been taken oh yes all right did he direct you to take any further steps as a now he’s a lieutenant so i suppose more canvassing of the area and also he wanted more officers there at the scene the confirmed that the scene itself was secured yes and that the squad was secured 320 yes and that the mr floyd’s vehicle was secured yes so there was another uh officer there a sergeant bob dale what is bob dale assigned to he was there he came with uh lieutenant zimmerman bob dale’s from homicide is that right i believe so and then with this being a critical incident this was going to be handed over to the bureau of criminal apprehension correct well at that point i we still didn’t know if this was indeed a critical incident but um we were i was going under the assumption that it was you know it’s better safe to go that way than not and as a because of that there are some steps taken to ensure that when this was handed off it would be handed off in a manner that it could be taken over with smoothly correct yes so it was uh did either dale or zimmerman make a suggestion to you about having a crime scene blog yes what do they ask for they just asked if a crime scene log had been started and i test officer areola with that task crime scene log is just a a log of names of officers and personnel that entered the crime scene and did you see officer areola start compiling a crime scene log yes publish exhibit 89.
You can see this officer areola here yes and he appears to be holding something is that right yes is that the crime scene log i believe so so as you testified at some point you learned that mr floyd had died correct yes and uh do you recall how you received that information uh it was later on in the night sergeant dale actually informed me that he had mr floyd had passed away was that pretty shortly after uh dale and zimmerman had arrived yeah yes about 10 13 p.m is that right it was sometime after sergeant dale and lieutenant zimmerman arrived and after that point were there arrangements made for transport officers to bring lane and king to city hall pursuant to critical incident protocol there were did you watch that happen yes officers wolitski and officer aschoff responded to the scene and they were officer king and officer lane’s transport sergeants uh publish exhibit 90. this is additional body-worn camera footage do you see officer sergeant ash aschoff in this photo yes would you take your stylus and draw circle and valetsky i don’t see bullet ski in this photo was this uh according to the time stamp 22 18 14 is that right correct okay and that was around the time that the transport officers arrived and i’m assuming the transport would have happened fairly shortly after that correct and they transported uh lane and king to is it room 100 within city hall room 100 and it was about shortly after that about 15 minutes or so later that the bca took over the scene yes i was notified by lieutenant zimmerman that the bca is on their way and they’ll be taken over the scene so we were requested me and my guys were requested to just stay put for scene security uh do you recall when uh the bca arrived i don’t remember what time they arrived no uh show you uh exhibit 91 do you remember the name of the agent who’s involved uh yes i believe his name was uh a special agent michael phil can you uh tell the jury what you see here in exhibit 91 who are people that appears to be special agent michael phil alongside lieutenant zimmerman right here yes that’s at 2300 is that right correct that’s the approximate time then that the bca took over the scene approximately you saw a special agent phil have a conversation with lieutenant zimmerman after that conversation took place did you have a conversation with lieutenant zimmerman um i you know i believe i had a conversation with both of them afterwards brief interaction when did the lieutenant did lieutenant zimmerman remain at the scene after the bca took over or did he leave uh well he came up to me and just told me pretty much that um it’s in the bca’s hands now and um they’ll be here and and uh just to ensure that myself and and uh my officers remained on scene for scene security until uh the bca tells us uh they’re done with their with their job and that we can take down the crime scene tape and leave publish exhibit 92 and there’s this special agent phil yes that is during the period of time you were speaking with him and getting instruction on what to do with the scene yes um did he ask you to do anything with the squad 320 yes he told me that they were taking custody of both the squad and mr floyd’s vehicle and uh we noticed that the squad was still running he asked me to open it up and power it down which i did did you remove anything from the vehicle no sir now at this point in the bca has a scene and you’re no longer taking any investigative steps or collecting evidence is that right correct but did you make observations of other officers doing those things watching the vca such as such as anything with the vehicle no no did you see anybody doing anything with the vehicles any other officer if that’s what you’re asking did you see other officers taking uh photographs looking at the vehicle no sir do you see any forensic scientists or people you recognize to be forensic scientists come onto the scene uh just the team of people that special agent michael phil had with him and those are several bca people there those are the folks who are allowed in the scene is that right yes at some point uh did you watch the uh mr floyd’s vehicle be actually towed away by the bca yes ultimately uh special agent here had both the squad car as well as mr floyd’s vehicle told from the scene and you watched them do that yes i was still on scene then publish exhibit 94.
Is this an image of the bca towing away squad 320 yes and they had already towed the suv at this point is that right i believe so can you tell the jury then what you did with the scene after the vehicles were towed away um after the bca had the vehicles towed away it wasn’t very long after that uh special special agent uh michael phil told me that they were all finished now and we could take down the crime scene tape and and leave did you do so yes sir publish exhibit 95 this is at 3 34 and 54 seconds what is this and what does this image show that’s at 3 34 a.m and that’s me um those are my hands helping take down the crime scene tape and so at this point then the crime scene was clear no longer needed to be secured and you would be able to exit the area is that right correct all right thank you very much i have no further questions your honor amen thank you thank you sergey you may step down thank you and mix with this will be the truth uh lieutenant if you can give us your full name spelling each of your names to start off with i’m sorry uh your full name spelling each of your names okay and also if you could remove your math okay thank you um it’s richard zimmerman richard and then zimmerman zimme mr frank thank you can you please tell the jurors what you do for a living i’m a police officer with minneapolis police department how long have you been a police officer since june june 3rd of 1981 and all that with minneapolis no the first four years from 81 to 85 i worked for the fillmore county sheriff’s department in southeast minnesota what did you do there i was a patrol deputy responding to 9-1-1 calls and so then it was what 1985 that you started with minneapolis yes i had the weekend off and started in minneapolis and june 5th of 1985.
And uh are you a licensed peace officer in the state of minnesota yes i am when did you first obtain your license i’m sorry when did you first obtain your license um june uh third of 1981. and uh as a police officer having that license are you required to do certain things to maintain that license yes what do you what kinds of things do you have to do um we have to do continuing ad like any other professional license and we have to do 40 hours of different education uh professional education um in a certain time period i’m not sure if it’s one or two years and if you don’t somebody’s going to let you know right yes they will and so since 1981 have you done all that’s been required to maintain your license yes i have when you started with the minneapolis police department in 1985 uh what was your job what were your duties um i was a patrolman i worked the north side precinct it’s called precinct four and i worked the third precinct um it’s called precinct three of course and then my permanent assignment was uh the fifth precinct uh which is um like franklin nicklett hennepin avenue lake street so when you’re working as a patrol officer what kind of things do you do yeah well we respond to 9-1-1 calls we uh um you know uh deter crime or try to deter crime i should say um and um yeah that’s kind of what we do uh traffic control that kind of thing out on the streets every day yes at least every day you work right yes and so then uh did your job duties change eventually yes in 1990 i um crack became really pro prevalent in the late 80s and so i joined the crack team in the fifth precinct where there were four officers and a sergeant and we would you know do search warrants uh looking for drugs that kind of thing and uh so what year was that i’m sorry pardon me what year was that 1990 to 1993.
And what did you do then in 1993 i took the sergeant’s exam and passed it and was assigned to the adult sex crimes unit and so what does it mean to be promoted to sergeant um well you you take a series of tests and once you’re promoted you express your interest is patrol or investigations and um so i uh talked to the lieutenant uh in charge of uh the sex crimes unit and expressed my interest so you mentioned having to take an exam yes just like sitting down and like we do in school taking an exam yeah it was a written exam and once you pass that phase then you would take a an oral exam and uh then you were given your scores and so you became a sergeant did some supervisory responsibilities come with that yes can you just describe for the jurors like what supervisory what kinds of responsibilities the sergeant takes on yeah well as a as a investigative sergeant um you know you’re signed a case to follow up with the victims and you do search warrants and when you’re doing search warrants you have officers that assist you so you’ll assign them duties that you know such as you know assisting with the search warrant and uh also have responsibilities to make sure the officers underneath you are properly trained yes absolutely yeah and uh you know i when i would do search warrants i would explain to the officers that um we don’t want anyone uh to um to get hurt either the officers or the subjects and so uh just continuing with your history then you went into the sex crimes unit as a sergeant and subsequent to that did your responsibilities change yes can you tell the jurors about that yeah in 1995 um the homicide unit was expanding because of the amount of murders that were occurring in minneapolis in 1995 so they brought in um myself and one other guy from the uh robbery unit and we were assigned partners in the homicide unit and which unit do you currently work in 1995.
Now which which unit do you currently work in oh yes i’m sorry uh the homicide unit so from 1995 to today you’ve been in the homicide yet yes and uh did you sometime during that period receive another promotion yes tell the jurors about that please yeah in 2007 um i i took a lieutenant’s exam or 2006. i took the lieutenant’s exam and that’s a series of again written tests and oral if you pass that phase then you go on to the oral interview phase and you’re notified of your results and so you were promoted you two lieutenants yes i was so how did that change your responsibilities your job duties well when usually when you’re promoted you’re you’re assigned to a different unit than you worked but they asked me to stay in the homicide unit because of my experience and so i took over the job in 2008 november of 2008.
Um and the duties are uh i get called for every death suspicious death um deaths where you know it’s clearly a homicide deaths where officers have any question about how a person may have died i go out to the scenes and you also supervise other officers yes i do you just describe for the jury you know your responsibilities in supervising other officers yes we we have uh right now we have 12 detectives in homicide that make up six teams they work with a partner in homicide and um they’re on a rotation basis for being on call they’re on call monday through monday and um when a team is on call um i’ll go out to a scene uh assess uh you know what the death may be uh involved and i’ll call the on-call team to come in and start working the case so you still respond to scenes yes but you also supervise the work of the investigators yes i i every morning when i come in i uh um pull up it’s called pulling up the cases and we we pull up every death report in minneapolis and um i’ll look through each report and i’ll assign a case that i might have some questions about and i’ll uh talk to the detectives explain why i think this needs to be looked into and that’s a monday through friday kind of thing and so are you their direct supervisor then yes so you started with minneapolis police department in 1985.
Yes do you know where you are in terms of seniority in the minneapolis police department yes where is that i’m the number one officer in seniority i hate to say that but i um were you called out to a scene on may 25th of 2020 yes and do you recall uh well why you were called to that scene um yeah homicide responds or the i respond initially to critical incidents um in a critical incident can be anything from a death to a serious injury of either officers or the public and so i was called in on this one so were you technically on duty at that time i was at home and i was notified by my commander uh of this incident that happened at 38th and chicago and uh so then did you respond to that scene yes do you recall about what time it was that you arrived at the scene um it was a little bit after 9 00 p.m and uh the location of 38th in chicago are you familiar were you familiar with that location at that time yes fair to say no stranger to calls of violent incidents at that intersection yes absolutely and when you arrived can you just describe for the jury what you first saw when you arrived at that location um i arrived on 38th street and i parked on the southwest corner on 38th street i saw a yellow tape up we call it this crime scene tape around the intersection i saw sergeant edwards who i know from work um on his cell phone um and i saw two officers and he was like in the middle of the scene kind of and then i saw two officers standing on the southwest or the southeast corner of the intersection and did you then approach those two officers yes i uh sergeant edwards appeared to be busy on the phone so i just walked up to the two officers and i’m going to show you well we had an opportunity before court to show you a piece of body cam footage shows you approaching the scene correct yes and that appeared to be a true and accurate representation of your approach to those two officers yes it is and that reflects the time as well yes your honor i would offer exhibit 96 any objection [Music] 96 is received then we’ll publish 96.
Pause here just for a moment if i could um this is the intersection of 38th in chicago yes and it looks like the time reflected here is 2156 yes so for those of us who have difficulty with that kind of math even what what is the real time that that really yeah it’s uh four minutes to ten okay so it was a little closer to 10 when you arrived yes and there is an individual i know it’s dark and it’s kind of hard to see but do you know who the individual is in the crosswalk there um i i don’t know and all right let’s continue [Music] foreign [Music] [Music] here for food please and uh just for the record at 21 56 53 you see across the intersection there appears to be a person walking towards us yes and do you know who that is that would be me all right and we’ll continue please [Music] all right you can take that down so it appears that uh you came to the scene in the street clothes right yes and that’s the moment where you walked up and talked to the two officers yes i did did you recognize those two officers yes no i didn’t and you appeared to be on the phone do you recall who you were talking to i i don’t know if it was my commander or a deputy chief i’m not sure so then when you arrived there um those two officers looked like you had just asked them a question did they give you some information about the incident yes and based on that information um what did you conclude about their role in the incident um there’s a thing that we call involved officers and non-involved officers and based on what they had told me i i determined they were involved officers and why would it be important to distinguish between involved and non-involved officers well in if you’re an involved officer you need to be brought down to room 100 at city hall and you need to be brought down by a supervisor in separate cars that’s just according to policy yes and so after having that conversation with them what did you do next um i told i talked to the sergeant i believe sergeant edwards and told him that we needed some more people out here um he told me another sergeant was on his way and um i told him that we needed to get these two guys downtown and which start you you remember i’m sorry which sergeant that was i’m sorry which sergeant that was you talked to i don’t uh i don’t remember okay was it sergeant edwards i believe that’s who i first talked to okay and so showing you exhibit 90 if we could please um and this is a photograph for the record of uh 2218.
Um this is you speaking on the phone at that time correct yes all right and um so here you’re still dealing with things at the scene is that right yes and so we can take that down i guess thanks the sergeant that you talked to what kinds of things did you ask that sergeant to take care of um i asked the patrol sergeant to arrange to have the two officers the two involved officers brought down to room 100 and that we needed some more officers at the scene and why did you think you need more officers at the scene to search for any possible witnesses or video and um and so then after having that conversation um what did you do next um i had called in uh two of the sergeants from homicide the on-call team to assist me and as you were doing that did you undertake any other actions to try and identify things that might be helpful for the investigation yes like what um if if you stand in the center of the intersection and um you’d look for um first of all you look for video cameras that may be hanging from different buildings or um in this case milestone cameras what is a milestone camera it’s it’s a city camera that’s set up in um in different areas of the city and they can be monitored to help us deter crime or to help if a crime occurs and uh being familiar with that location did you believe there was a milestone camera at that intersection i knew there was yes okay i’m going to show you exhibit one you recognize what’s in that photograph yes and uh what is that that’s the intersection of 38th in chicago do you know can you show the jurors if you want you can write on the screen there should be a little stylus there in front of you where that camera is located i believe it was right uh right here okay and how is it mounted or where is it mounted um uh you know i’m not sure if it’s light uh on a light pole um or under a light pole but it’s mounted up high some kind of pole there right okay in fact sometimes we call them pole cameras for yeah the obvious reason yes the older guys do that older guys and me that’s what you mean when you were at the scene um did you learn more about the condition of mr floyd the subject i did do you recall when in your time there you learned about that um it was after sergeant dale arrived and sergeant dale one of the sergeants you called in to assist yes sergeant bob dale is one of the homicide teams that i called in and um so this was after you had arranged the transport officers yes and what did you learn about his condition um that mr floyd had died and were some decisions made about what would become of this investigation based on information and what was decided um that the bca would be in charge of the investigation the state bureau of criminal apprehension and when that decision is made what’s the role of you know minneapolis police at that scene um well first it’s it’s to support the bca investigative team with whatever they might need that night and also it’s to secure any witnesses that we may find to see if they would be willing to talk to the bca also it’s when you’re at a scene trying to locate any video cameras again and filling in the bca agents that arrive and in fact at some point did bca agents arrive yes and um when they arrive just describe a little bit for the jury what the process is and upon their arrival um yeah the the bc agent uh generally or specifically in this case just generally yeah um when the bca arrives they’ll um come up to you for a briefing and you tell them what you have at the scene what you’ve learned um and um uh where uh people are at you know like in this case uh the officers were brought to room 100 that kind of thing um and then um you tell them or you ask them um what help they might need and um and then um specifically did something like that happen here in this case yes and i’m going to show you exhibit 91 on the screen please and do you recognize what’s depicted in this photograph yes and again this is the intersection of 38th in chicago um yeah that would be me in the center of the shot talking with a bca and this is uh starting that process of turning the scene over to them right yeah so the time here shows 2300 about 11 00 11 p.m yes and so then um did you in fact turn this scene over to the bca yes i did that shortly thereafter concluded your involvement with the scene yes you talked earlier about the training you need to do to maintain your peace officer’s license correct yes and as a minneapolis police officer you know where do you get that training from um well we’ll get it from our training um unit um we’ll also get it from outside sources uh uh you know different schools that are being put on um some that are specific to homicide some that are you know a one-day course some maybe a two-week course that kind of thing does that training include instruction on the use of force yes and how often do you get instruction on the use of force uh once a year and how many officers have to go through that use of force training every year every officer on the police department that includes the guy who’s number one in seniority that includes me yes absolutely and when you um well let me ask it this way are there also minneapolis police department policies about the use of force yes there is and are you required to be familiar with those policies yes you are and when you do that use of force training does it cover um the policies as well yes you also do some physical activity taking people down rolling around yes we have a mat that we use at our soc center and it’s like a huge wrestling mat and are you familiar with the use of force continuum yes is that part of the minneapolis police department use of force policy yes it is can you just describe in general what that means to the jurors yeah so basically the use of force continuum is um guidelines or its policy actually that we have to follow and it’s when for instance when you arrive at a scene no matter what the scene the first level the lowest level would be just your presence at a scene in uniform the next step up maybe your your uh verbal uh skills that you would that you’ve learned to help defuse a situation or learn information about whatever the situation is the next step would be like a soft soft technique escorting the person by their arm that type of thing the next level would be a hard technique that’s where you would use your uh you know you may have to use your mace or handcuffs that kind of thing and finally the the top um level on the continuum is uh deadly force and so those levels change you know how and under what or for what reasons might that change yeah well um if you’re uh say you arrive at a scene and somebody’s pointing a gun at you or shooting at you of course you go to the top level you know and and that’s how they may change so it’s relative to the threat right yes and um are there different kinds of force that officers can use yes and have you ever in all the years you’ve been working for the minneapolis police department been trained to kneel on the neck of someone who is handcuffed behind their back in a prone position no i haven’t is that if that were done would that be considered force absolutely what level of force might that be that would be the top tier the deadly force why because of um the fact that um if if your knee is on a person’s neck that can kill them and in your training with with the minneapolis police department over the years have you received training on restraining people yes including the use of handcuffs yes and when you are handcuffing somebody when you handcuff them what is your responsibility as an officer with regard to that person um well could i give you an example um okay um well let me ask you this um again if if you as an officer according to the training you handcuff somebody behind the back what’s your responsibility with regard to that person from that moment uh um that person is yours um he’s your responsibility uh his safety is your responsibility his well-being and is your responsibility once you handcuff somebody does that affect the amount of force that you should consider using absolutely how so um once a person is cuffed the the threat level goes down all the way you know to uh they’re cuffed how can they really hurt you you know um and uh well certainly there could be certain circumstances when a cuff person could still be combative oh absolutely yeah yeah but you getting injured is way down what do you mean by that well you know if you’re you could have some guy try to kick you or something um but you can move out of the way that person is handcuffed you know and they um the the threat level is just not there so by handcuffing somebody you’ve taken away some of their ability to harm you absolutely and if somebody who is handcuffed becomes less combative does that change the amount of force that an officer is to use under policy yes how so um well if if they become less combative you you may just have them sit down on the curb or um the idea is to calm the person down and if they are not a threat to you at that point you try to um you know to help them so that they’re not as upset as as they may have been in the beginning in your you know 30 years of training with the minneapolis police department your experience have you been trained on the prone position yes and what has your training been specific to the prone position well once once you secure or handcuff a person um you need to get them out of the prone position as soon as possible because it restricts their breathing when you handcuff somebody behind their back well as part of training have you been handcuffed behind the back yes and have you been trained on what happens to individuals when they’re handcuffed behind the back yes so when somebody is handcuffed behind their back how does it affect them physically it stretches the muscles back through your chest and it makes it more difficult to breathe if you put somebody in the prone position well is it well known this danger of putting somebody in the prone position how long have you had training and the dangers of the prone position as part of a minneapolis police officer for since 1985 and uh is it part of your training regularly regularly to learn about keeping somebody in the prone position yes and what has the training been with regard to the prone position once a person is cuffed you need to turn them on their side or have them sit up you need to get them off their chest why because of the as i mentioned earlier your muscles are pulling back when you’re handcuffed and if you’re laying on your chest that’s constricting your breathing even more in your training as a minneapolis police officer are you provided with training on medical intervention yes i assume you’re not you know taught to be paramedics but you receive some level of training yeah we’re first responders i think is what our category would be does that include doing what we think of as cpr chest compressions yes how often is that part of your training um cpr uh it’s like every other year or so and as part of your training within the minneapolis police department policies is there an obligation to provide medical intervention when necessary absolutely what is the general teaching that you get with regard to medical intervention well again it um it’s been that you need to provide medical care for a person that is in distress and would that be true even if you’ve called an ambulance to come to the scene yeah absolutely the you know the ambulance will um get there in whatever amount of time and in that time period you need to provide um medical assistance before they arrive uh why don’t we take our mid-morning break yeah members of jira will take our 20-minute mid-morning break the attorney’s going to deal with the issue while you’re operating and you may step down if you wish okay just a reminder you’re still interested yes sir thank you your honor lieutenant zimmerman um i want to draw your attention back to the incident on may 25th of 2020 yes earlier you told the jurors about being at yeah being at the scene finishing your work there the next day did you have an opportunity to review some video of that incident yes and you recall what that video where you saw it yes and was it the we’ve been calling the darnella frazier video yes did you watch that video in its entirety yes i did and since then have you had an opportunity to watch other video of the incident yes and specifically have you watched uh body worn camera video of the incident from the involved officers yes and based on that uh and your years of training and experience with the minneapolis police department um you saw officer then officer chauvin with his knee and mr floyd’s neck correct yes would you call what you saw there a use of force yes and did that use of force continue until the ambulance arrived yes it did was there any change in the level of force being used until the ambulance arrived no and what do you think about that use of force during that time period i’m sorry what do you think about that use of force during that time period a little vague could you uh limited to uh the time frame right okay so um based on your review of the body-worn camera videos of the incident yes and directing your attention to that moment when mr floyd is placed on the ground yes um what is your uh you know your view of that use of force during that time period totally unnecessary what do you mean um well first of all um pulling him down to the ground face down and putting your knee on the neck for that amount of that amount of time it’s just uncalled for i saw no reason why the officers felt they were in danger if that’s what they felt and that’s what they would have to feel to be able to use that kind of force so in your opinion should that restraint have stopped once he was handcuffed and prone on the ground absolutely and i should add to that question then also that it appeared he had stopped resisting i’m sorry and it appeared that he had stopped putting up any resistance absolutely i would stop i have nothing further let me just have a moment good good morning lieutenant zimmerman good morning thank you for being here today you’re welcome so you testified that you have been a minneapolis police officer since june 5th 1985 correct 1985 yes and uh prior to that you were with another agency yes and uh when you initially came on to the minneapolis police department you were a patrol officer correct yes you were a patrol officer from 1985 to approximately 1993 when you took the sergeant’s exam and were promoted yes and so it’s fair to say that since 1993 so 27 28 years you’ve not been on patrol in the city of minneapolis correct your assignments have been uh investigative in nature correct yes and generally speaking an investigative role is um more of a follow-up type role right yes so an incident occurs on the street it gets assigned to a detective and then uh your job is to investigate uh the the circumstances of that incident right yes and so um it’s fair to say that since 1993 you’ve not other than perhaps for ceremonial reasons you’ve not worn a uniform on a daily basis well i don’t know if i would call it ceremonial well i need to wear a uniform you have to wear a uniform from time to time but your your daily role is as a plain clothes clothed police officer correct yes and um you’re not out patrolling the streets making arrests things of that nature no all right um and it’s fair to say then that your experience with the use of force of late has been primarily through training your training yes all right meaning um you’re not out actively other than perhaps arresting a homicide suspect you’re not out actively patrolling and uh arresting people for lesser less serious offenses no right and so um you describe the use of force continuum as including uh mere presence being a type of the use of force right yes and so when you arrive on scene as a lieutenant in the homicide unit that is a use of force right um i if people know i’m a lieutenant yes or if they know you’re a police officer perhaps um and then you described like soft techniques like escort holds things of that nature right yes um and i’m assuming that in the last well since 1993 and you were promoted to sergeant uh you’ve handcuffed some people in that time frame right now right when’s the last time you got in a physical fight with a person um about uh in 2018 okay so it’s been a couple of years since you’ve been in a physical fight with a person yes all right and so um you would agree that the use of force as an investigator is or or the higher levels of force as an investigator is less likely than a patrol officer um i’m sorry i don’t understand your question i’ll i’ll rephrase it the frequency with which you have to use higher levels of force as an investigator doesn’t happen all that often right correct and so your experience generally as a use of force or involving the use of force is primarily in this annual what’s called defensive tactics training right yes and the defensive tactics training is one of the requirements you need to use or to complete in order to maintain your license as a police officer right yes and you would agree that or i’m i’m presuming that since 1985 until the present day uh tactics have changed as a police officer some tactics have changed yes right and uh it’s fair to say that you are not a trainer in the minneapolis police academy relevant to the use of force correct that’s correct you do not teach other police officers defensive tactics your you would agree however that roughly 10 years ago the minneapolis police department kind of moved away from trying to hit people to control them and started using body weight to try to control people i don’t think i would agree with that okay so you think that i mean within the within the arsenal so to speak of a police officer uh it’s as common to punch or strike someone in the use of force as it is to just use what are called take down moves or body weight pens yes okay and that’s been throughout your entirety of your career um yes okay and so um and you’re basing that again on your experience as uh just going through the defense of tactics requirements right and again as a lieutenant and the number one senior officer in the minneapolis police department i’m presuming that your understanding of the use of force involves the minneapolis police department policies on the use of force right yes and the minneapolis police department policies uh are designed at least based on your understanding to address the legal requirements for the use of force yes and so there are factors correct to determine whether or not a use of force is proportional reasonable things of that nature right correct and and what we look at in any particular case is the totality of the circumstances agreed yes so there’s lots of different information that a police officer has to use in order to determine the the level of force to be used under which circumstances yes agreed yes now in terms of the minneapolis police department are you familiar with the minneapolis police department’s critical thinking or critical decision making model yes and you would agree i’m assuming again based on a long career that an officer is constantly taking in new information and that information will affect the decisions he or she makes right that’s correct and would you also agree that the training that you received initially as a police officer is probably a lot different than the academy now yes um obviously the the available tools that officers have are a lot different today than they were in you know 85 90 95.
Yes body cameras they didn’t exist when you first became a police officer that’s correct tasers were not a thing either right um you carried a gun and some handcuffs and kind of old-school cop right yes um now in terms of the decision making the the decision-making of a police officer would you agree that there are certain pieces of information that that officer has that affect his or her decisions on the use of force yes and some of those some of that information is very immediate kind of low level information agreed yes so for example what just happened with this particular suspect right yes is this suspect under the influence of a controlled substance or is he sober yes right um what are you looking at in that moment through your own eyes right yes that’s the officer’s experience in any situation right right you look at other things that may be hazards or threats in the immediate vicinity correct yes so you’re gonna assess are there people watching are there people videotaping are those people happy or angry etc right yes you’re going to look at what we would refer to as scene security right yes you have a responsibility as a police officer for your partners who may be close to you right yes you have a responsibility as a police officer for all of the people in the immediate area right yes and so seeing security is kind of trying to keep it as tight as possible and keep everybody in the area safe agreed that’s correct everybody in turn you were asked a series of questions about your uh uh an officer’s medical responsibilities i’m sorry you i said i would you were asked a series of questions about your medical training and an officer’s medical uh what they’re supposed to do right yeah yeah and even in the assessment of a medical emergency there are many factors that come into that assessment correct yes to your knowledge minneapolis police officers are sort of or they’re trained medically at a fairly low level they’re not paramedics doctors etc that’s correct you’re a first responder yes basically you’re taught how to apply tourniquets patches for gunshots stop bleeding basic cpr and resuscitative efforts right that’s correct a police officer’s job primarily is to keep the scene safe agreed i’m sorry a police officer’s responsibility is to keep the scene secure and safe agreed yes minneapolis police policy requires the involvement of a higher level of medical intervention if the circumstances dictate correct yes and an officer is required if someone is having a medical emergency to take what steps are they’re able to reasonably in the moment right yes and that would include potentially calling ems that’s correct but then so you’ve got all of these immediate factors right that come into play but then you can kind of widen that lens a little bit and you can there are some other factors that come into play in terms of the use of force again based on your training and experience yes such as what do we know about the location generally right yes is this a field in the middle of the woods or is this a higher crime area right yes an officer is evaluating that as a process as a part of the process involving the use of force agreed yes you look at other things such as tactical advantages or disadvantages agreed yes so if you are if you are not able to get what’s called concealment or cover that becomes a question right um and what uh well in in a use of force you’re you’re examining the the surrounding area right to see if something happens can i conceal and cover right yes you also in addition to the scene security you need to deal with securing the scene which is different than scene security agreed yes seeing security is maintaining the safety of everyone around including yourself and your partners right yes securing the scene is making sure that the scene itself is preserved and kept tight right correct yes and in fact a police officer’s responsibility and part of the use of of forced determination is to prevent or avoid the use of force against other people agreed yes absolutely so if you have to use force against one person to avoid using force against others that’s a factor that an officer should consider agreed um i i don’t know if i would agree with that okay um again within the training department those people who are uh it’s their jobs to do that they may be better at to answer those questions yes all right and then even from there you can widen the lens even further and an officer will look at his training right yes what he is trained to do or not to do right he will look and take into experiment or she he or she will take into account his or her own experience from their past career agreed yes so uh things like fighting with someone and what’s the probability or possibility that that person is going to continue fighting with you in the future right even after you have them subdued um i i i don’t know i i don’t think i can agree to that totally but okay i understand what you’re saying there are circumstances where after a person is rendered unconscious and then you perform uh you you revive that person that they are more combative than they were initially [Music] and again in terms of your own past experience an officer’s own past experiences they’re taking that into consideration as well sure now you testified that you were never you have never been trained as a minneapolis police officer to use a knee on the neck of a suspect you would agree however that in a fight for your life generally speaking in a fight for your life you as an officer are allowed to use whatever force is reasonable and necessary correct yes and that can even involve improvisation agreed yes minneapolis police department policy allows a police officer to use whatever means or nest are available to him to protect himself and others right yes so if there’s a paint can sitting on the table and someone is attacking you can use that paint can as a weapon yes and in fact uh you have been trained in the prone handcuffing techniques correct yes and it’s your testimony that minneapolis police department has never ever trained anyone to put their knee across the shoulder and to the base of the neck i didn’t say that okay so you would agree then that pursuant to minneapolis police department training when a suspect is arrested and in the process of being handcuffed or being restrained it would be consistent with the minneapolis police department training you’ve received to place your knee across the shoulder to the base of the neck um i i don’t know if i’ve part of your question was handcuffing and we’ve certainly been trained to put the knee on the shoulder but i don’t know about just restraining a person i i don’t recall being trained in that but okay again possible based on the circumstances sure and when an officer is restraining a person and has called for ems have you heard the term that we’re holding this person for ems yes okay and essentially that means you want to keep them in that position until ems arrives because they’re more capable to deal with whatever this situation is agreed no i don’t think i would agree with that okay how would you describe the term hold for ems hold for ems is that you are holding him for ems or her and sometimes people are held for ems in a restrained position agreed yes sometimes now you also testified that once a person is handcuffed the threat i think you said is gone it’s at the lowest threat level right yes that’s correct now that obviously um a person who’s handcuffed can still pose a threat right um i suppose they could yeah so an officer who is han even though he has someone handcuffed that person could continue to kick the officer yeah i suppose that off that person could continue to thrash his body around agreed sure and part of the reason police officers restrain people is for that person’s own safety agreed absolutely yeah now it also presumes that the handcuffs were placed on correctly right yes um sometimes in the in a struggle or an attempt to handcuff someone handcuffs aren’t placed on properly and they can pop open or be too big for a suspect right um yeah i i i don’t know if i’ve ever seen them too big you know for suspects sometimes they’re too tight okay but but if sometimes in the in the process of handcuffing someone one handcuff goes on thereby giving the suspect a potential weapon if he were to break free right yes or she for that yes and officers have been attacked with their own handcuffs in your experience right oh yeah yes so you you would agree that the use of force is a is a dynamic series of decision making based on a lot of different information absolutely and it’s based upon a lot of information that is not necessarily captured on a body camera agreed uh yes that’s correct the body camera is only so effective to show what the body camera sees and not what the officer sees that’s correct now in terms of what you uh did in this particular case um essentially you would be what’s called is are you what’s called car 21 is that the homicide unit and i made no it’s not car nine i don’t know you’re just homicide there’s some car associated with homicide right yeah yeah what car is that we would be car well it would be like um car one um 112 or 108 or um 110.
Okay that kind of thing all right so you got called uh or you were made aware of this incident back on may 25th of 2020 you understood it to be a critical incident correct yes and it is minneapolis police department policy to turn over the investigation of any critical incident or the majority of critical incidents we should say to the bureau of criminal apprehension right yes and that is uh to avoid any potential conflicts between the involved officers uh right yes that’s right and so your role you heard this call came out and you kind of self-assigned to to show up here yes and you did that because you wanted to make sure the scene was secure right yes to make sure that the officers who had responded to the scene were doing the things that they should be doing in connection uh with a critical incident that’s correct such as roping off or tying off the off the tape or taping off the scene i should say right putting up crunch yes yes not permitting citizens to come wandering through the scene right yeah canvassing the area i think you said and ultimately your role in this particular case was limited to a couple of hours of time making sure those things were done and until um bca agents arrive and and you hand it off the scene right yes that’s good all right and it was it was not until later that you were asked to review the uh body worn cameras of the officers and uh consider the use of force right yes and it would not be within your normal role of you or job duties to do such a use of force analysis right that’s correct i have no further questions redirect uh luzon zimmerman you had the opportunity to review the body-worn cameras from officers involved yes did that also capture the bystanders on the sidewalk during the incident yes was there something about that group of bystanders that in your assessment was an uncontrollable threat to the officers at the scene no would there be a way or well i mean i ask it this way what would there be other ways for officers to deal with bystanders yes and could that include calling for backup yes would the presence of multiple officers at a scene be a relevant fact for an officer to consider when using an amount of force on a handcuffed and restrained subject no it should be well but if if there’s some concern about the crowd would it be relevant that there were other officers already at the scene oh i see yeah no it it doesn’t matter the crowd as long as they’re not attacking you um the crowd really doesn’t shouldn’t have an effect on your actions you were asked if the use of force training has changed over time yes okay but you still get the most up-to-date training every year when you go to the use of force training i do yes um and you were asked about you know has the academy changed uh since you went to the academy yes and uh you haven’t been through the academy since then correct right yeah but you have some familiarity with how the academy trains new officers absolutely and do you think that academy training provides appropriate training for officers yes it should and would provide the most up-to-date training on the use of force for minneapolis officers that take the academy type training yes you were asked if you know you were a trainer you are not a use of force trainer that’s correct you are a student yes of course and but it’s your testimony that based on all the training you go through every year it’s well known that the prone position is dangerous absolutely yes it doesn’t take a trainer to be able to say that you’ve learned it yes and that’s been something that’s been trained repeatedly absolutely that hasn’t changed you were asked about the critical decision-making model yes familiar with that from your training yes and part of that is continually reassessing the need for force correct fair statement yes and so that would include reassessing um the location yes the tactical advantage yes conceal and cover yes scene security yes security and scene yes or security of the scene yes medical distress of the person restrained yes when you watch the body camera videos did those videos capture those types of circumstances relative to the restraint of mr floyd um yes and you were able to assess those things and telling the jury what you thought earlier about the restraint of mr floyd i am when you watch those videos at some point during the restraints did you see mr floyd kicking the officers no i didn’t may have happened initially but after that did you see any kicking no no defense counsel asked you about the concept of holding for ems yes so sometimes it’s necessary to keep the person there so they can receive medical treatment that’s correct does holding for ems excuse an officer from providing medical attention that they’ve been trained to provide no it doesn’t does holding for ems excuse officers from continuing to use this decision-making model about the use of force no it doesn’t does holding for ems excuse officers from using other resources like other officers at the scene to do you were asked about handcuffs uh if handcuffs are not probably locked can they tighten yes can they loosen i’m sorry if they’re properly connected can they loosen they can come open but if they’re locked can they still tighten that’s right if they’re not i think the term is double locked right yes based on your review of the body cams did you see any need for officer shovin to improvise by putting his knee on mr floyd for nine minutes and 29 seconds no i did not i have nothing further you know any requests all right thank you let me step down council cyber right members of the jury that’s going to do it for today so we’re going to release you adjourn for the day and return hopefully to start 9 15 on monday we have a motion before that that we have to deal with so it might be 9 30 but let’s shoot for 9 15.